FINANCE COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
CITY OF GARFIELD HEIGHTS, OHIO
Tuesday, March
18, 2008
Joseph
Suster, Chairman of the Finance Committee, called the meeting to order at 7:00
p.m.
Members Present: Michael Abella, Jr., Councilman of Ward 7
Michael Dudley, Sr.,
Councilman of Ward 1
Debra Sarnowski,
Councilwoman of Ward 4
Others Present: Nancy Marincic, Councilwoman
of Ward 2
David Neumeyer, City
Engineer
Richard Obert, Finance
Director
Frank Wagner, Council
President
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Councilpersons Mahoney and Liotta asked to be
excused tonight. The purpose of tonight’s meeting is to talk about the street
resurfacing program and we’ll touch on the renovation of the Justice Center. I
can do that for a couple minutes, but Mr. Spehar had to go out of town and I
have to talk to him more because he told Dave and I that he would be doing a
lot of traveling so trying to nail him down to have a meeting over this is
going to be hard. If that’s the case maybe we’ll have to put it on the back
burner. First of all I’m going to have Dick go through some stuff here.
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: I’d like to bring you up to
speed. I found some old charts upstairs from 1983 and 1996. (Mr. Obert
handed out a table showing the number of full-time employees.) Remember how
we were talking about safety forces? You can see that they have been increased
almost 31%. The Municipal Court went up 53%. The part-timers are not even
included in this. Some departments have a lot of part-time people. We had one
jailer, Chester Bauer, and we’re up to seven. The Law Department stayed the
same. Recreation had three maintenance people. Building had 20—the three we got
now plus foremen. They actually had eight inspectors and secretaries but there
were 12 other maintenance people and some of them were in Recreation too. Now
it’s redistributed around a little bit.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: At that time were they being paid through the
Building budget or the Service budget?
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: Service. They were just under
his jurisdiction –the Building. Why we had so many employees in Service –we had
14 garbage men. They are all gone and we’re down 12. Once we lost the garbage
thing he’s running just little bit short of people. We have more retirements
coming up.
CLMN
ABELLA: You said the Service Department was down two
guys.
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: Twelve.
CLMN
ABELLA: That’s from 1983 but within the last five or
six years they’ve been the same, right?
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: Yes. I put 1996 in there like a
little mid-point. They had 42. We actually have three more than in ’96.
CLMN
ABELLA: When the Service Department says they’ve got
less guys, that’s not recently.
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: No, not at all.
CLWN
MARINCIC: Last time we saw Timmy didn’t he say he was
down 12 guys?
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: That’s what he’s going by. It’s cumulative.
CLWN
MARINCIC: I took that the wrong way.
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: That’s why I was trying to
clarify it.
CLMN
ABELLA: I remember when we were discussing the salt
truck situation that he said he was down in guys. What is that? In 1983?
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: In Nutrition they’re up six.
Those are three bus drivers and that Social woman they hired. That’s the
increase in that budget down there. Why it got so expensive with that busing of
people all over.
CLWN
MARINCIC: How could it change?
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: In 1983 you remember we were at
5555? Tony’s office was the first one. They could not fit 20 people in there.
So the Building Department staff was eight people. The other 12 people were all
the full-time maintenance people that worked in any other building that we had
at the time. Tony was in charge of them. It was not the Building Commissioner.
Tony had a construction background and he was over all the maintenance. Safety
went down one. Most of our costs were in wages and benefits.
(Mr. Obert distributed a second table showing overtime hours by department in 2008.)
You
can see that in the snowstorm we already pulled $38,000.00 for a two-week
period. We’re hitting a $700,000.00 pay. Everything we’ve got here is 14%. The
City’s on PERS now. And the fire’s 24 cents and the police 19.5 cents. So you
have pension money too and we pay the taxes on this stuff. This is one way to
control this.
What’s
going on? We’ve got about $2.4 million in receivables out there. I got a call
from the State. We don’t get the receivable money in here. It’s been out there
for quite a while. They owe us a quarter
million on Issue I for that service garage. They’re still screwing around with
the Catholic Cemeteries deed. We still have $1.2 million coming from Yale. All
of these real estate--the judge gave me the name of an attorney who does
collection work for the Court. We’re going to have to start looking at it. It’s
$1.1 current delinquencies. What’s going to be the next six months? Don’t know.
All that money is basically operation money. This runs our police and fire
department. My goal is I have to get this money in here. We’re done with the
budgets. We have all the resources estimated for the County. Enough is enough.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: I talked to Dick Yale who said we should have
our check Wednesday.
COUNCIL
PRESIDENT WAGNER: For how much? Two million?
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Six hundred thousand.
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: The director, Bonnie, said we
don’t have to buy the entire parcel. We will own the property that that board’s
on, OK? It will be titled to us. I want to know why that board got on there in
the first place. The State said we’ll take the $600,000.00. It’s on our
property.
CLWN
SARNOWSKI: Isn’t that our Law Department’s job?
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: I have tried for two years to
get something done up there and I’ve got nowhere. We’re in negotiation with the
County to get about $640,000.00 too.
CLWN
SARNOWSKI: What do you need to get in to stop the State
from coming in?
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: It’s not a question of how
much; the point is, is it coming in? If you can show it’s coming we got no
problem. The issue is with current operating. It’s not just Garfield. It’s
everybody. The school’s three times as bad. Something is going to happen. Trust
me. If this stuff keeps up the way that it’s going the City will not have any
money by the end of the year. If you have $2.4 million plus another two million
that’s $4 million. These budgets don’t have $4 million in reserve. We will have
a cash shortage.
COUNCIL
PRESIDENT WAGNER: Are all our unpaid bills
paid up?
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: Everything through February. We
had that girl out and she retired now. That was a major probelem. Ronnie was
out a week. We’re really operating with a short staff.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Let’s talk about the street resurfacing
program. I wanted Dick to give us the good news first.
CLWN
SARNOWSKI: Did everyone read the article in the paper
about the white topping?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: I just saw that today. I
don’t know much about white topping. If I remember correctly, white topping is
using concrete instead of asphalt. It’s more expensive but it lasts longer.
CLWN
SARNOWSKI: It says they can put it over asphalt?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: I don’t think it would ever
hold up. You’d have one inch of concrete, one inch of asphalt and one inch of
concrete. Asphalt is flexible. It moves. Concrete doesn’t. It’s rigid.
CLWN
SARNOWSKI: Reading this article it sounds cheaper to do
than asphalt.
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: I‘ll look into it.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: What would be the purpose of an inch of
asphalt underneath?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: Drainage.
CLWN
SARNOWSKI: So you can really put it on top of our
asphalt?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: Unless there’s a concrete
base. Correct.
CLWN
SARNOWSKI: There are a lot of streets like that.
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: Yes. It’s useful but you
can’t just do all the streets like that. I will look into the pricing.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: How do the prices differ this year from last
year?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: Looks good. I just did two
bids for the City of Cleveland and they came in 25% under last year.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Do we still have seven streets to be done?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: Yes.
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: Kokosing said they would do it
if Benedetti can’t, right?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: Yes, they said they would do
it for the same price, but we had a contract with Benedetti.You get a better
product out of asphalt than recycled.
COUNCIL
PRESIDENT WAGNER: If the current contractor
cannot perform his contract does he get fined or?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: There is a stipulation of
completion date in the contract.
COUNCIL
PRESIDENT WAGNER: What do we do about it?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: We concluded that he could
do it in the spring as long as it’s the same price. He can’t come back and say
there’s an increase in material, labor, etc. One of his foremen had a stroke
and he was in the middle of a job in Lakewood.
I talked to everybody and no one had a problem with it.
COUNCIL
PRESIDENT WAGNER: Why did we wait so late into
the fall to do resurfacing? Why didn’t we do it in the spring?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: I have no problem with the
spring. You get better prices.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: I think we had talked about doing it in the
spring last year. In other years they couldn’t finish because of the weather. I
thought we had talked about doing it in the spring rather than the fall.
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: I really don’t know why we
waited till the fall. The sooner the better. There’s not a lot of work now for
contractors.
COUNCIL
PRESIDENT WAGNER: Your fee is based on a
percentage of the job, correct?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: Yes.
COUNCIL
PRESIDENT WAGNER: The higher the job the
higher the percentage of your fee, yes or no?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: Yes.
COUNCIL
PRESIDENT WAGNER: So if it started in the
spring you’d get a lower fee.
CLMN
ABELLA: Did we find out why they started late? For
four or five years we have tried to start it early. If we contracted with them
to start early, maybe they chose to start later? Or were not able to start till
later?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: I don’t think the contract
was awarded until August.
COUNCIL
PRESIDENT WAGNER: I suggest you put a clause
in there that if it’s not completed by August 31st it costs them
$10,000.00 per day.
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: That’s a standard clause in
our contract.
COUNCIL
PRESIDENT WAGNER: Why aren’t we enforcing it?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: Last year the contract
wasn’t awarded till August.
COUNCIL
PRESIDENT WAGNER: Why don’t you get the ball
rolling so that doesn’t happen again?
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: We had some questions over streets. We were
messing around with streets. One list came out with some on there and then
Debbie would have no streets and we went back and forth for three months. It
was in how we went about selecting our streets. They had their list and we had
our list. They put the list together and it didn’t come back the way we
submitted it. Am I right, Debra or am I wrong?
CLWN
SARNOWSKI: You’re right. We had our list, but when it
came back from them it was different.
CLMN
DUDLEY: I know that Maplerow was on that list. It was
e-mailed to me. It should have been done. He was backed up on Maplerow.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Are there streets in your Ward that still
need to be done from last year Debbie?
CLWN
SARNOWSKI: Yes.
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: All the ones on Phase 2 need
to be done. The concrete is completed.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: What is another thing that we did? We did one
phase in spring? Or did we not?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: No, we did two phases, one
with the traditional fill and the other one with recycling.
CLMN
DUDLEY: Was the money already allocated for the
streets that were not done last year?
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Yes.
CLMN
ABELLA: What is your suggested date for us to have
our streets in agreeance, have the money, etc. to get the program started as
soon as possible?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: To get them for bid?
Mid-April. So they can start in a month. There is not a lot of work out there
so the contractors are pretty hungry.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: You’re talking about doing this in the
spring, but remember what Dick said. We have to see if this money’s coming in.
If we don’t get the money maybe we won’t be able to do it until the fall? I
understand what you say about getting it done early but there’s no sense in us
doing it if we don’t have the money. I agree with Debbie on what she said
earlier. Do we need to have a meeting with the Law Department? To tell
them—Dick could give us a list of the monies that are owed to us and for what
period of time it’s been owed and say right up, we need the money. They need to
get paid and I understand that. So if we need to have a Finance Meeting with
Dave Mack and go over this with Dick there, I think you’ll find out when we’re
all done that there is a lot of money owed to us. I don’t know if anybody is
adding up the figures Dick throws out but it’s a lot of money. If we had that
we could say sure let’s start the resurfacing
COUNCIL
PRESIDENT WAGNER: A suggestion too--we have
time to do this--is put a resolution up (we’re at Council Meeting Monday)
directing the Law Director to do this. Put it in writing and make him do it.
He’s had a couple years to do it.
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: We had a financial plan with
one of our Finance Meetings and we were going to have some old bonds that were
out there that were over 12 years old and were callable. Usually under 10
there’s a penalty to call like .5%. But this was several million dollars worth.
The first bank that was in the paper today was National City (a commercial
bank) but the investment bank that deals with them, Bear Stearns, was the top.
Wednesday their CEO said there was no problem in the works. What happened from
Wednesday to Sunday?
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Two months ago he also had a meeting and he
was telling everybody at these meetings how financially sound they were.
CLMN
ABELLA: Their stock was over $75.00.
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: Now it’s $2.00.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Here again, I think what we need to do is get
the Law Department to help get them.
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: Even outside lawyers could do
it.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Yes but you have to pay them a big
percentage.
CLMN
ABELLA: We have a Law Department. Could we have a
list of what they owe? And meet with the Law Department?
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: Yes, I have a list.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: I just said that. Can you send that out to
each member?
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: Yes.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Before we make any decision about doing the
streets we got to find out if we got the money. We’ve overextended ourselves a
couple times.
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: I sit in these meetings with
the Mayor over here and of course Transportation Blvd., Phase 2, with those
John McGill deals. You know they’re talking grants--$2.5 million? We have to
pay up front on these grants and wait six months to a year. I know it’s all
legal problems, title work, etc. We can’t give you the money because the
conveyance deed that you used was not acceptable to us.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: I still say that’s the only way we can do
this. If you have the list can you send it out to every member?
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: Yes. I‘ll send out copies of
it.
CLMN
ABELLA: Our streets are worn out. We got to do it.
I’ve always said that’s one thing. Our budget for streets has been $1 million
for the last 12 years. We have never increased the budget, yet the raw
materials have probably increased by 300%. We all used to get five or six
streets. Now we get one. I know we don’t have the money, but we have slowly
backed ourselves up with streets. I need so many streets in my Ward that with a
budget of $1 million per year my Ward’s streets won’t get taken care of for 40
years. That’s how bad it’s gotten. Sooner or later we’re going to have to
increase the amount.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: I won’t make an excuse but go to a lot of other
suburbs and our streets are still in a hell of a lot better shape than a lot of
them.
CLMN
ABELLA: That’s your opinion.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: You get right on the freeway and that’s
smooth.
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: I came up with these
calculations and I gave Mayor Longo the list from RITA. Out of 142 cities over
74 cities have some form of credit. They don’t get 100% credit from their
residents. It’s all over. Maple 2.5%, Parma 2.5%. Here’s the deal. Either you
get more money in through the people that are working and can pay for it (it’s
not retirees) or you can start shutting down programs. Say I’m the State
Auditor and I’m sitting here? You tell me there’s a nutrition program, serving
how many different cities by the way—not just Garfield—you don’t need a fleet
of buses to drive them all over, you don’t need a Rec Center. You don’t need
it. It has nothing to do with public safety. Cleveland is crying about the cop
shortage. There’s a problem with safety over there. You’d balance your budget
if you’d eliminate two programs. You’d get your streets, but the problem is you
have to be willing to do it. There’s no win on this thing. Either you raise the
taxes in some way—some format--or raise fees or you eliminate programs. Here’s
what we’re going to do. We were running fine until this real estate thing came
along. It’s really bad out there. I don’t think it’s getting any better.
CLWN
SARNOWSKI: Have they signed that contract?
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: Not as yet. He’s meeting with
them tomorrow.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Is there any reason he would even consider
signing that contract?
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: They want from us to pay them
to take over the buses. Without our drivers $138,000.00.We are paying our
drivers with benefits close to $100,000.00. What are they going to do with the
money if there are no buses to drive?
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: We can’t wait to have this meeting with Dave
Mack and the Law Department.
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: I’d say Wednesday.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Let’s see what happens. That’s only one part
of the equation. If we get that. You say there’s other monies. So whether we
get the money from Clear Channel or not we still need to have this meeting with
Mack about working on getting the other stuff. I think if you want to do this
we should do this as soon as possible. Don’t wait six months, etc. because if
you want to do a street resurfacing program we need to move. If we have to have
Dave go out and get it for us, or if he says he does not have the help to do it
it’s going to cost more money to do it, but maybe we’ll have to go to some
outside attorney. I am looking at possibly having a meeting next week with him.
COUNCIL
PRESIDENT WAGNER: How about before the Caucus?
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Not before the Caucus because it will take
some time. If we’re going to have a meeting with him we have to be sure that he
knows what we want. I think we should have it next week. Let’s make it Tuesday.
Will you get hold of Mack?
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: Yes.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: Seven o’clock Tuesday? Dick will have to put
together a letter on this and say that Mr. Mack knows how important this is. I
would like all of our names requesting that he be there. The meeting was called
by the Members of Council that are here except for Tracy and Vince Liotta. Is that
all right with everybody? Then he’ll
know.
We won’t do a long thing as far as the restoration of the Justice Center only because it’s a money thing. I initially talked to Mr. Spehar about this and he had said it would probably be a three to three-and-a-half year project so I thought he would be doing the cheapest part first. But the most expensive part needs to be first. That’s to tear all the piping out of the building. You’re tearing out all the ceilings. That will be the most costly part. So rather than to drag this out, that’s where we stand. It isn’t the point that you can say OK we’ll do the basement this year. It all has to tie in together because the way the pipes are in now if you put in new pipes and the pressure grows they will all pop. It’s just like what you have under your streets now.
CLWN
SARNOWSKI: Can’t we talk to Noreen and see if we can get
a block grant? Because we’re covering a lot of people—the police station and
the Courts?
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: When we did this in 1987 Ray Strich got us a
grant so maybe. I’ll call Noreen tomorrow and see what she can get. I’m not
going to ask everybody to sit here until we find out about the money. Maybe
there’s some projects we said we’d do that we won’t do?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: It’s just a matter of when.
Do you want to get all your streets together and I’ll get a quote and it
will be ready to go? When you sort out the money we can put it out to bid.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: You said when you put out for bids for
Cleveland it was $2.4 million and it came back $2 million. With the price of
oil how could it go down 25%?
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: The contractors are starving
for work. There’s not a lot of work out there.
CHAIRMAN
SUSTER: The majority of time the material is the
biggest cost.
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: They’re taking a cut on the
profit.
FINANCE
DIRECTOR OBERT: No. When you look at the size
of Cleveland $2 million is like 20 cents.
CITY
ENGINEER DAVE NEUMEYER: My point is my estimate to
do the project was $2.5 million but the bids came in at under $2 million. Right
now a lot of contractors are giving good bids.
CLMN
ABELLA: I move to adjourn.
CLWN
SARNOWSKI: I second the motion.
The
meeting was adjourned at 7:42 p.m.
Approved, Respectfully
submitted,
____________________ ____________________
Joseph
Suster Barbara
Molin
Chairman of the Finance Committee Clerk
of Council